Hi Eagleboxer,

I too am an Eagle Scout.

Lets look at this issue from a scouting perspective. What skills
would a scout be gaining by earning this badge that he can't already
get with existing badges.

There's already orienteering and several art related badges. Many of
the skills I've learned in Scouting I've applied to letterboxing as
well as (and more importantly) to life.

There was a discussion going on a while back by several scout leaders
regarding doing letterboxing as a troop activity. One of the big
sticking points was the Scout rule of leaving and area better than
you found it. Some consider leaving a letterbox as going against
that rule. I personally don't agree with that. A letter box is not
a piece of refuse. Just like a trail shelter or a picnic table, it's
something that is in use.

As long as it is well hidden and in a non-sensitive area it should
not create a problem. I believe that letterboxing in North America
is going to be coming to a crossroads soon. Public land managers
have a responsibility to knowing what's on their land and how it's
being used. That's for both the protection of the area as well as
the users of that area. If there's a lost hiker, he's got to know
all the places that that hiker might be, which includes letterbox
locations.

Up to this time it's been a rather casual sport. The only way that I
believe letterboxing can exist on public land openly is for there to
be a non-profit organization representing the sport. Otherwise it
would have to be clandestine.

So, in conclusion, the jury's not in on whether letterboxing can be
considered a legitimate past-time in this country. If in the end, it
can't be done openly, I would vote "NO" for its appropriateness as a
merit badge subject.

Good luck

Forester

--- In letterbox-usa@y..., "eagleboxer2002"
wrote:
> I am an Eagle Scout with the Boy Scouts of America and I would like
> to know if any person has ever attempted to create a merit badge
for
> letterboxing. I often hear about how letterboxing needs to expand
> and how it would be nice to have more people as active members and
I
> was thinking that creating a merit badge for letterboxing might be
a
> good way to introduce younger people into the activity.
> What I would like to know is first, has any person ever tried to
make
> it into a merit badge? Secondly, what does everyone feel about
> this? If you object please Email me with why you object, if you
> are all for it please Email me and tell me why you are all for it.
> I would hope that nobody will take this idea and do it them self
but
> if you do I will live. I just would like to see more letterboxers
> and definitely see some younger ones at that. Your reply would be
> greatly appreciated. Thank you.
>
> Eagleboxer2002
>
> PS- Wanda, Pete and Jay Drew, I would definitely like a reply from
> you since I greatly respect your opinions on anything having to do
> with Letterboxing.

Forester,

Well said.

In that light, we should all be somewhat careful how/where/when we
choose to promote this pasttime. An occasional magazine article,
lacking specifics, isn't likely to make a bunch of park rangers hunt
us down. But the right word in the wrong company could have us losing
more boxes and boxing places than we have so far.

There was a TV reporter on the CT list asking for help with a story.
He wants to bring a camera crew on a hike. Could you imagine being
discreet with that following you? Not to mention when the story
aired, some park official will probably be slighted at the least at
not being informed of the boxes in his park. Move over Martha
Stewart - it would *not* be a good thing!

JMHO,
Aili

Due to the comments of some of these people I have decided NOT to do
a merit badge on Letterboxing. The main reason for this is a point
that two people brought up, park rangers. Some park rangers are
against letterboxes and if there were to be a merit badge then some
park rangers would go out searching for these boxes and destroy
them. In light of that I will not be doing a merit badge or anything
to that effect. Thank you everyone for your reply.
Eagleboxer2002

--- In letterbox-usa@y..., "eagleboxer2002"
wrote:
> I am an Eagle Scout with the Boy Scouts of America and I would like
> to know if any person has ever attempted to create a merit badge
for
> letterboxing.

Just thought that I'd chime in as an Asst. Scoutmaster. At first
thought it seems like a fun idea but I'd have to agree with one of
the other 'boxers that stated you have to look at what the other
merit badges accomplish. They are in large part designed to
introduce a boy to an activity or profession that he may want to
pursue in greater detail at his own pace after earning that badge.
They also give the scout skills to be applied to his scouting
experience as well as life in general. Again, something that several
other badges accomplish that lead to letterboxing. Essentially,
would something new be learned that would assist the scout in the BSA
or his life with the creation of a letterboxing merit badge?

To the question of wether or not a scout can wear a non BSA merit
badge on his sash. According to what I've read, no. But that
doesn't mean that an enterprising young scout can't find a way to
display it while in uniform. I've seen some VERY interesting
neckerchief slides.

Just my two cents.
Randy of The Pair o' Medics

on 6/13/02 6:40 AM, pairomedicsandtheivs at squad51@earthlink.net wrote:

>or his life with the creation of a letterboxing merit badge?
>
> To the question of wether or not a scout can wear a non BSA merit
> badge on his sash. According to what I've read, no. But that
> doesn't mean that an enterprising young scout can't find a way to
> display it while in uniform. I've seen some VERY interesting
> neckerchief slides.


Okay... I'm seeing a dual purpose neckerchief slide/personal stamp here.



TC
newest assistant cubmaster in Portland

Aili,

I think you miss my point. I would like to see it as an open
activity that has the approval of public land managers. The issue
isn't just about losing boxes or getting in trouble. It's about
understanding the responsibilities of land managers and seeing their
side of the story. They're understaffed as it is and they can't be
worried about maintaining things such as letterboxes on their land.
I'm telling you that the answer lies in having some kind of entity to
deal with. As I've said before in this group, nobody can just walk
onto public land and build a trail shelter. However, Mountain and
trail clubs build them and maintain them since there is a group that
the land managers can contact.

Maybe that can't happen with letterboxing. I don't know. I know, as
a result of our last intense discussion on the topic a year ago many
people began listing the terrain difficulty and off road time
required. I appreciate that and would go further to say that the
clues should encourage the searcher to use the same precautions that
any outdoors enthusiest (or scout) would use. Not just "take
precautions" but, rather, be specific regardless of how simple it
seems! If they don't follow them, that's their problem. When the
box involves a long hike, they should be advised to check with the
ranger to tell him where they're going, even if they don't mention
letterboxing. In all my years of hiking I've seldom followed the
rule I learned in Scouting of telling somebody where I was going.
However, nobody else was sending me out there but myself. No need to
open up last year's can of worms. Just think of this as another
suggestion and I'll end it there.

My other suggestion, is to keep unacknowledged boxes on public lands
as drive-bys and short walks.

I just believe that somebody needs to approach public land management
agencies at a higher level than the local ranger station. If we go
individually to our local rangers, some of us will have success and
some won't. However, if the ruling comes down from above it won't
matter what the local guy thinks. It will be out of his hands.

There could be a lot of advantages for public land if letterboxing
were done on it. There already is. Many of you have done a
wonderful job of placing natural and historic interpretive
information in your clues. They need people using their lands in
order to get more funds for improvements and land acquisition. If
this could be presented in the right way, it could blossom into a
wonderful symbiotic relationship.

I would prefer to do letterboxing openly, because I sympathize with
the plight of the public land manager. Unfortunately, I don't have
the time or the resources at this time to be the organizer of a
letterboxing organization. I wish I could.

I'm sure there are some public land managers lurking. They're the
ones I'd really like to hear from. There needs to be a dialog.
Maybe, in a later message I can list a number of guidelines that I
would suggest if I were a public land manager. We've got to get a
discussion going.

Here's an analogy. Some underage teenagers go into the woods all the
time to drink. They think it's such a great thing and that they're
so free when they're out there. They'd laugh at any of their peers
who might suggest that they're doing something wrong and could get in
trouble. Yet, when they get caught by a ranger they're so surprised
and indignant. In my previous discussions, some of the attitudes
displayed reminded me of those 'pre-caught' teens.

You say you want letterboxing to be free. I would like it to exist.
The only people who should be solving mysteries are the searchers,
not the people charged with managing the land they're hidden on.

Forester


--- In letterbox-usa@y..., "defygravity2001" wrote:
> Forester,
>
> Well said.
>
> In that light, we should all be somewhat careful how/where/when we
> choose to promote this pasttime. An occasional magazine article,
> lacking specifics, isn't likely to make a bunch of park rangers
hunt
> us down. But the right word in the wrong company could have us
losing
> more boxes and boxing places than we have so far.
>
> There was a TV reporter on the CT list asking for help with a
story.
> He wants to bring a camera crew on a hike. Could you imagine being
> discreet with that following you? Not to mention when the story
> aired, some park official will probably be slighted at the least at
> not being informed of the boxes in his park. Move over Martha
> Stewart - it would *not* be a good thing!
>
> JMHO,
> Aili

--- In letterbox-usa@y..., "eagleboxer2002"
wrote:
> Due to the comments of some of these people I have decided NOT to
do
> a merit badge on Letterboxing. The main reason for this is a point
> that two people brought up, park rangers.

Aren't park rangers just grown-up eagle scouts?

you have a good point about Park rangers being grown
up Eagle Scouts. But the issue between wanaandpete
having their box being thrown out of a park shows that
whether or not they are grown up eagle scouts those
park rangers still may object.

also, I agree with the idea of a non profit
organization for letterboxing as well, but then you
have the issue that it would have to be seperate
organizations for each region because letterboxing is
spread over great distances. Since we would be
needing several organizations we would have to find
people to run them and people to work for it, that
would be very difficult. I would say that a non
profit organization is a little beyond us right now
but we should keep it in mind for a later date when
letterboxing is more 'public'.

Eagleboxer2002

Hi Eagleboxer2002,

I don't know of anyone involved from the Boy Scouts side but there
are several people in CT and RI involved with the Girl Scouts. There
have been organized lessons on stamp carving and letterboxing with
letterboxes being placed on Girl Scout property (with proper
permissions.)

If you are interested in learning more you can email me at
moonstone_baby@yahoo.com.